Comments on: The 12 Values Deconstructed

By: admin(Quinlan)

admin(Quinlan) — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:32:13 +0000

The translations may be very inaccurate. For example, many experts say that the terms such as ‘homosexual’ are mistranslated, because they didn’t have words like that back then.

Again, how can people listen to God when he does not provide evidence of his word? How do I know to listen to God over Krishna?

Also, in terms of people ‘paying’, there’s no need. Rather than God simply teaching people a lessons (a la my parent analogy), he opts to send them to hell for eternity.

By: Donny from SC

Donny from SC — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 03:37:40 +0000

You look for a translation which is directly translated from the original text. This cuts out just about all denominational versions. I myself prefer either the old King James version or the New King James version.
And yeah, God knows whats going to happen, and he can stop it. but he doesn’t. Does it mean he’s evil? no, it just means that someone somewhere didn’t listen to him, and therefore theyll pay for it someday.

By: admin(Quinlan)

admin(Quinlan) — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 18:09:33 +0000

But how can anybody know which Bible is the right one? God refuses to intervene and point out the correct text, and thus billions are sent straight to hell. It’s God’s fault, directly.

There doesn’t need to be any sin. God, as an omnipotent being, has the power to prevent anything that he does not want to happen. So either he enjoys watching people sin and then go to hell, or he doesn’t exist.

By: Donny from SC

Donny from SC — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 17:38:40 +0000

The bible does clearly lay out stuff. I mean, i don’t see how Matthew 19:17-19(NKJV) (for example), isn’t very clear.
I see what you are saying about all these different bibles and whatnot. If you notice, just about every denomination has it’s own bible. These all have either things added to it or taken away from it(or both.), and thats why i don’t agree with those in any denomination.
God also makes the existance of hell clear, just as he makes the existance of heaven clear.
And even if he stops that kid, the kid is still going to try to get that cookie.
Plus, how can there be sin if God stops it all the time?

By: admin(Quinlan)

admin(Quinlan) — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:50:00 +0000

The Bible was not written for others, the Bible was written for the prosperity of the authors (just like every other book). Like most other religious leaders, they were simply selfish.

Forgive me, but it seems you’re having trouble grasping the “God is the guilty party” thing. Let’s bring it down to a lower level: that of a father and young child. The father tells his 3-year-old son that he is leaving home for a while. “Don’t get into the cookie jar,” says the father. However, rather than actually leaving, the father hides and watches his son. If the child is obedient, perhaps the father will congratulate the child. However, let’s say that the child was not so obedient. The father sees the child climbing up towards the cookie jar. However, being a good father, he goes out and stops his son before he can fall from the counter and injure himself, or eat a cookie and get sick. The father gently scolds the child, and explains to him why he did not want him to venture after the cookie jar. The child learns a lesson, and was not hurt in his ill thought out venture for cookies. Everybody wins.

Now let’s move this analogy to God. Like the father, there is no way to know if God is there because he refuses to prove himself. However, that’s where the similarities stop. Father explicitly said not to take cookies. God, however, does not lay out the rules specifically. There are many books and text that claim to say what his will is, but they all contradict each other and they all contradict themselves. None of them has proof of God, and there’s absolutely no way to know which is right. So let’s say that the cookie is, oh, murder. Well God never explicitly told the murderer to be that murder was wrong, so how could they possibly know? The murderer then goes and commits their act, but God does not stop them. God does not stop them from falling off of the proverbial counter, nor does he stop them from taking the proverbial cookie. Quite the contrary, he lets them do all of these things, and then, rather than a scolding and a setting right, God sends them straight to an eternity in hell. The murderer didn’t even realize hell existed, because God had failed to make it clear.

Now of course, the idea that murder is wrong is simply a human instinct, but hopefully you get what I’m saying.

By: admin(Wexler)

admin(Wexler) — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 18:46:06 +0000

Donny, I’m jumping into this kind of late. I’ve enjoyed reading most of the posts between you and Quinn.

I just have to say, whenever you try to rationalize your argument by assuming the irrational, you are fighting a losing battle. To me, it is irrational to believe that there is what is commonly agreed to as a place called “heaven” by the Christians. It’s impossible to prove that it exists, the only thing that you have to prove it is the writings of some ME mystics from 20 centuries back who have probably been mis- and re-interpreted more times than in a campus-wide game of “Whisper” at UCLA.

However, pain, suffering, and all the rest of the evils we have here are definitely real, or at least they are physically quantifiable. A someone with a chronic pain condition, I can attest to its reality. So please don’t try to explain God’s part of this away by telling me that if I work hard and play by the rules I’ll get to “heaven” someday. It holds no weight with me whatsoever, nor with any rationalists.

I’ll now step back and allow your conversation with our resident militant atheist to continue.

Best regards,
Wexler

By: Donny from SC

Donny from SC — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 14:34:16 +0000

No, although there is alot of things referring to the culture of the time, all of the commands mentioned are timeless.
technology may change, but human nature doesn’t.
And ok, i see where you’re coming from with that, but i still think that they would keep some way of being able to change it.
Also, the only possible thing that a person could gain from making all this up, a the time, is money(embezzling tithes to the church). But even then, it’s unprofitable. You were persecuted by being jailed, eaten by lions, ridiculed, beaten, a mixture of those things, and probably more. Why would the authors write that, and take the consquences unless God was telling them to do it?
As for God being evil because he likes watching people suffer.. Again, why would he say “Don’t do this”, and then send people to hell for doing it, when he wanted people to suffer? Why would he reward people for doing what he says(which isn’t making people suffer), by sending them to heaven?

By: admin(Quinlan)

admin(Quinlan) — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 04:42:25 +0000

I’m sorry, could you please clarify your question about the Bible verse? Basically, the Bible was made for the people of the time, not for the people of the future. Had the authors known how today’s society would be, they would have included additional verses (or so I’m guessing). So the authors put that in to protect themselves and their dogma, not the dogma and preachers of the future.

By: Donny from SC

Donny from SC — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 04:22:26 +0000

im really tired right now, so im not going to write much..
Paul was an apostle who went around on several missionary journeys throughout the middle-east and rome and such.
for his troubles, he was often beaten and thrown in jail. you should read Acts, you’ll find the stuff he did in there.
yeah, it is a safety measure, but what if you don’t like what it says? man usually has ways of being able to change the way things are done.

By: admin(Quinlan)

admin(Quinlan) — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:54:54 +0000

Right, but you see? This whole “qualify for heaven” thing? It was all God’s choice. Why doesn’t he just send everybody to heaven? Because he wants them to suffer. Now why does he want them to suffer? Supposedly because they sinned in life. Why did they sin in life? Because he did not stop them. Again, he could stop them at any point. They could still have free will! They would still have the choice to shoot a person. God would simply stop the bullet. There is absolutely no suffering in the world that God could not stop on a whim. Then there’s this whole crap about “a higher plan”. “My baby died because God has a higher plan.” It’s false. What the hell does God do with a baby in limbo (or some say hell)? Anything that God could accomplish with others, he could accomplish himself. He is omnipotent, and has no need for such things. The logic defeats itself.

What makes your religion right and others wrong? What makes Jesus more credible than Krishna?

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God…” Tell me what you think this means, please. I think it means that these men were inspired by the IDEA of a god to write. It does not say that God wrote the bible. It’s saying that men were inspired to do so. I think you’re creating detail that simply isn’t there.

As for Galatians 1:8, here’s what that says in modern terms: “If anyone tells you things that are contrary to the Bible, let him be condemned.” It’s a huge incentive, it’s the writers’ way of making sure that nobody would go against their work. It’s a safety measure.

I don’t know about Paul, I don’t remember that story. A quick refresher if you will?