Nothing personal, Mark. But I really think that you’d be doing YOURSELF a favor by leaving the church. Everyone I’ve heard from has never regretted making that decision.

Thanks for the comment.

I know a lot about Mormons because of Beck.

And what I’ve learned is not very flattering. Further, your “church” is about to descend on my state to try to overturn our LGBT marriage law.

Here’s a suggestion for you. If you don’t like gay marriage, DON’T MARRY A GAY PERSON. Meanwhile, you should keep the fuck out of everybody’s lives with your proselytizing, condescending, crap. I’m sure I’m not the first person you’ve heard this from and I know I won’t be the last. The Mormons are trying to turn this nation into a theocratic state, which means to me that there is no qualitative difference between you and the Taliban.

I can guarantee that your cult’s invasion of my state is going to meet with unexpectedly strong resistance. People around here do not tolerate religious bigots telling them what to do, how to live, and so on.

-Wexler

PS I don’t give a crap about what the Mormons say about “civil discourse”. If the Apostles meant Beck they would have called him out by name. The plain fact is that Mormons will say or do anything at any time to wheedle a response out of people. You take advantage of people’s natural tendency to want to get along. I’m not going to fall for it, you can tell your fools at NOM that they are spinning their wheels here. I will make sure that every person in Iowa knows about Prop 8 and Question 1, you can put THAT in the bank.

The Mormon church has recently made an official statement calling for civil, informed, and open-minded discourse, which many Mormons feel was mainly directed at Glenn Beck’s show.

Qu1n1an and I are trying to improve and update this page with new information as we learn it. We appreciate the feedback from everyone and I would like to get more of it from Mormons on both sides of the Glenn Beck thing.

For example, Glenn Beck has joined forces with Liberty U. Most of the coverage has been on the topic of how Fundie Christians could rub elbows with the Big Bad Mormons. However, I’ve heard nothing from the other side. How do Mormons feel about Beck’s apparently putting political dogma over religious values?

Those are 2 areas that I have yet to explore, but I feel installment 3 of my series on Beck & Fundies can’t be far off.

Thanks again,
-Wexler

I’ve been a Mormon all my life, and that is perhaps the most accurate description of Mormonism that I have ever read. I am irked to no end by the LDS Church’s refusal to distance itself from ass-clowns like Beck and Skousen. The good news, I suppose, is that Mormons have a history of eventually bowing to public pressure, at least in the cases of polygamy and giving the priesthood to black men. I would have paid money to listen to your conversation with “Brother Jacob.” Keep up the good work.

Also, thanks for pointing out the “Mormons embarrassed by Glenn Beck” Facebook group. Brilliant.

Submitted on 2010/05/19 at 10:26am

Wexler,

What a fascinating blog. I admire your passion even if I disagree with nearly 100% of your statements. (Not trying to slam you, just trying to be transparent up front.)

Thank you for your candor. I hope you won’t take offense at anything I post to you, either. I’m sure we will disagree. In the interest of being up front, let me state that I am an atheist, so I do not have a dog in this fight per se. However, since I am a fierce advocate of separation of church and state, you will find me taking issues with any assumption that religions can organize, enjoy tax exempt status, and engage in any organized political process.

Two things on your “Glenn Beck Mormon” page.

First, given the thought and research you’ve obviously put in elsewhere on your site, it was strange to me to see some of your quotes and background on Mormonism were primarily opinion pieces from disgruntled Mormons. Those people’s opinions are just as valid as a non-disgruntled person’s opinion is, but it doesn’t lend itself to scientific scrutiny: The whole problem with trying to hold a discussion on religion in general. I can’t prove God exists, my opponent can’t prove he doesn’t. It’s the problem trying to disprove a conspiracy theory. “Ah, the fact that no proof exists that Obama was born in Kenya only PROVES how wide reaching the conspiracy is!” How do you refute an argument like that? You can’t, other than to explain that your opponent is an idiot.

OK, you’re right, the only stuff I have put on this site regarding Mormons is the negative stuff. However, that’s the stuff you proponents ought to be the most interested in, because those are the objections you need to overcome if you want to have a positive or even neutral reputation in the public’s mind. Maybe you don’t care what the public thinks. I think that people who have been inside the church are much more able to speak to what goes on inside it than I am. If you’re suggesting that I should put positive stuff up to balance the negative stuff, how would that make it more scientific? I consider the negative stuff to be data; if it can be proven to be invalid then it’s bad data. Nobody has tried to do that yet (here).

So, my suggestion would be to not try to prove the Mormon church is evil, or a cult or “not the true church.” You’ll never be able to prove it, because at it’s heart, faith (in this case faith in a religion) defies logic. Plus, there are plenty of sites out there that are REALLY hard core anti-Mormon and you problem don’t have time to keep up with them.

As I stated earlier, being an atheist allows me to discuss the cult/not a cult question with detachment. When I call Mormons a “cult”, it’s not my opinion. It’s the opinion of others who ascribe to a certain set of Christian dogma. But after Falwell U gave Beck the honorary PhD, I guess that’s a pretty clear statement about Xtain fundies, eh?

The issue of the Church as a PAC will be played out in the courts, not just in Maine, but there are still cases pending in CA, I believe.

Yes, and if enough people tell the truth, it will become clear that the Mormon leadership took money from its members and laundered it through NOM. Fred Karger believes that the dollars in California amounted to $32 million. From the Mormons, he means.

It might be interesting to show (as you’ve attempted to) how Glenn’s actions and statements disagree with the official Mormon statements/beliefs. For example, the smoking thing was probably offensive to most Mormons.

Right, and when I started the “Glenn Beck-Mormon?” page it was my intention to try to shame the Mormons into issuing a clear statement that the Mormon organization does not endorse or support the views of Glenn Beck. However, the more I began to look into this, and inquire into it, the more I realized that the Mormons stand to gain from Glenn Beck. He creates an atmosphere of fear, which makes people susceptible to religious bullshit. (Sorry, couldn’t think of a better term). I got the classic run-around when I tried to get an answer about this from the folks in SLC. This was right before the Conference, too, and Mormon bloggers were urging the President to distance the organization from Beck. They refused to do it, though, and in fact one of the fair-faced lads left me a magazine about the Conference. Interesting stuff.

Second, More disclosure: I’m an active member of the Mormon Church,(Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), although I, of course do not in any speak for them.

I gathered that. I know (now) that one of the things about your group is that each person speaks for themselves. I think that’s a good idea, but it makes people like Glenn Beck a problem, don’t you think?

With that said, I would be happy to share my experience with the church. Don’t get me wrong, I have no interest in proselyting. Anyone interested in that can head over the http://www.lds.org and get the official word. I’m talking about just general run-of-the-mill questions about Mormon life/theology.

My contention, and that of those who have “escaped”, is that the official word doesn’t say diddly squat about what happens if you have a change of heart after you join the group. Nothing good, I’d say. (Except freeing your heart and mind from the chains of a very repressive bunch).

For example, some of the links you reference imply that Mormons hate black people. LOL While I myself am white, I’ve adopted 7 black kids. I certainly don’t hate them. . . well, not often, but then, they’re kids!

Hate is not the right word. I believe it’s “cursed”. You think that they are cursed by God, or at least some of you do.

The article you link to also implies that to be a “good” Mormon you have to turn away from your non-Mormon friends. I’m not sure what the life situation for the author was, but my personal experience was different. My two closest friends in the world are non-Mormon. These are men whom I would trust with my life, family and money. (I’m not sure I’d trust many Mormons I know with that last one.)

OK, when you got married, which one of your best friends got to be your best man? Answer: neither. They’re not allowed inside the temple. Do I have that right?

Your information on Mormon divorces is also muddled and not entirely accurate. (Based on my experience watching family members get divorced and remarried.)

I don’t know about Mormon divorces, if that’s on my website I don’t remember putting it there.

My offer is motivated by the fact that I like your site, but much of the information on the “Mormon” page takes away from the integrity of the rest of the site.

OK, help me out. I will entertain any reasonable stuff from reasonable persons, like yourself. Can you please address the “heresies” that I have listed in part 2 of the Christian Fundies vs the Mormons article? Remember, since I’m an atheist I don’t put any pejorative value on them more than other points of dogma from any other religion. If you could take them one by one that would be great. Also, if you could help me with the “Glenn Beck Lies” spreadsheet that would be EXTREMELY appreciated.

If you’d rather have the discussion off-board so you can decide what you want to post, feel free to email me at the email address associated with this post.

I will try to do that; as you can tell from how long it took me to getting around to this, I don’t have a lot of time/energy to put into this project. Sorry about that. I have accumulated over 30 students and some days I’m so ill I just have to go to bed. My problem, not yours.

Again, thanks for the blog. It makes me question my beliefs and that’s always a fun exercise.

Yes, I think it’s very useful. The Mormons I have gotten to know through their missions and also doing business with them are great people. Sometimes a group can be dysfunctional, though, even though everyone in it is individually terrific. I’ve seen that happen, too. To me, when you build a system of dogmatic belief based upon things which are unknowable, this is not only a possible outcome but a likely one.

- Rodney Bliss

Peace, Rodney…

-Wexler

Thank you for your detailed and excellent comment.

I appreciate your thoughts greatly, and I will respond to them as time permits. Unfortunately, that won’t be today, since I have 8 students today. I’m sure we will find places to agree to disagree.

Cheers,

Wexler

What a fascinating blog. I admire your passion even if I disagree with nearly 100% of your statements. (Not trying to slam you, just trying to be transparent up front.)

Two things on your “Glenn Beck Mormon” page.

First, given the thought and research you’ve obviously put in elsewhere on your site, it was strange to me to see some of your quotes and background on Mormonism were primarily opinion pieces from disgruntled Mormons. Those people’s opinions are just as valid as a non-disgruntled person’s opinion is, but it doesn’t lend itself to scientific scrutiny: The whole problem with trying to hold a discussion on religion in general. I can’t prove God exists, my opponent can’t prove he doesn’t. It’s the problem trying to disprove a conspiracy theory. “Ah, the fact that no proof exists that Obama was born in Kenya only PROVES how wide reaching the conspiracy is!” How do you refute an argument like that? You can’t, other than to explain that your opponent is an idiot.

So, my suggestion would be to not try to prove the Mormon church is evil, or a cult or “not the true church.” You’ll never be able to prove it, because at it’s heart, faith (in this case faith in a religion) defies logic. Plus, there are plenty of sites out there that are REALLY hard core anti-Mormon and you problem don’t have time to keep up with them.

The issue of the Church as a PAC will be played out in the courts, not just in Maine, but there are still cases pending in CA, I believe.

It might be interesting to show (as you’ve attempted to) how Glenn’s actions and statements disagree with the official Mormon statements/beliefs. For example, the smoking thing was probably offensive to most Mormons.

Second, More disclosure: I’m an active member of the Mormon Church,(Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), although I, of course do not in any speak for them.

With that said, I would be happy to share my experience with the church. Don’t get me wrong, I have no interest in proselyting. Anyone interested in that can head over the http://www.lds.org and get the official word. I’m talking about just general run-of-the-mill questions about Mormon life/theology.

For example, some of the links you reference imply that Mormons hate black people. LOL While I myself am white, I’ve adopted 7 black kids. I certainly don’t hate them. . . well, not often, but then, they’re kids!

The article you link to also implies that to be a “good” Mormon you have to turn away from your non-Mormon friends. I’m not sure what the life situation for the author was, but my personal experience was different. My two closest friends in the world are non-Mormon. These are men whom I would trust with my life, family and money. (I’m not sure I’d trust many Mormons I know with that last one.)

Your information on Mormon divorces is also muddled and not entirely accurate. (Based on my experience watching family members get divorced and remarried.)

My offer is motivated by the fact that I like your site, but much of the information on the “Mormon” page takes away from the integrity of the rest of the site.

If you’d rather have the discussion off-board so you can decide what you want to post, feel free to email me at the email address associated with this post.

Again, thanks for the blog. It makes me question my beliefs and that’s always a fun exercise.

- Rodney Bliss

Yes, they are a mad cult. I think their numbers indicate that someone took a pee in the gene pool.

Of course, just yesterday the Harris Poll indicated that 24% of GOPers think Obama may be the anti-Christ, and a majority of GOPers are “birthers”.

No wonder their party is imploding…. they depend on a construct of conspiracy theories and lies to keep the faith instead of any ideas about how to fix very real problems that are crushing Americans.

Personally, I believe that all religions are deeply flawed so I have no particular bone to pick with any of them except that Mormons are a domestic political action group masquerading as a church for tax purposes. They are an authoritarian cult, driven by money they squeeze out of families who are stuck inside the church.

There are support groups if you are trying to leave the Mormon cult. Every Mormon who reads this owes it to themselves and their family to get OUT of that cult.